[001 SPOKEN ENGLISH CORPUS TEXT A01]
[In Perspecfivel]
[Rosemary Hartill]
[Broadcast notes: Radio 4, 07.45 a.m., 24th November, 1984]

good morning more news about the Reverend Sun Myung Moon founder of the
Unification church who's currently in jail for tax evasion he was awarded an honorary degree
last week by the Roman Catholic University of la Plata in Buenos Aires Argentina in
announcing the award in New York the rector of the university Dr Nicholas Argentato
described Mr Moon as a prophet of our time next week a delegation of nine Protestant
ministers from Argentina visits the Autumn assembly of the British Council of Churches it's
meant as a symbol of reconciliation between Christians following the Falklands War
Protestants however are a tiny minority in Argentina and the delegation won't be including a
Roman Catholic 'the assembly will also be discussing the UK immigration laws Hong Kong
teenagers in the church and of course church unity schemes in the Free Churches there's some
renewed grumbling about Anglican ambivalence to the British Council of Churches though the
Anglicans still talk about doing as much as possible with other churches sorne Free Church
people feel that in practice the Anglicans go it alone whenever they can an articie in this
week's Baptist Times asks what Bishop wants to confer when he can have a camera and a
microphone all to himself when the Church of England's general synod can now get so much
attention from the press the role of the British Council of Churches seerns to fade into the
background of course what concerns church leaders isn't necessarily what worries ordinary
churchgoers even less the general public l can't recall ever having had a single letter on
the British Council of Churches and its problems going by my postbag most people are worried
about the problem of pain the existence of God and miracles they want to know whether for
instance in a scientific age Christians can really believe in the story of the feeding of
the five thousand as described or was the miracle that those in the crowd with food shared
it with those who had none is the aid beginning to flow into Ethiopia any less a miracle
than the five loaves and two fishes well just recently a day conference on miracles was
convened by the research scientists Christian Fellowship it was chaired by Professor Sir
Robin Boyd a fellow of the Royal Society and the key question was when is a miracle not a
miracle I suppose the popular notion of a miracle is an event unexplained by science or
natural laws but the scientists themselves weren't having any of that on this definition
they say very few events can confidently be called miracles because we have no idea what
natural laws may be discovered in the future more important however is that the biblical
writers themselves thought that events that followed natural laws could still be regarded as
miraculous take the crossing of the Red sea by the lsraelites for instance this was made
possible by a strong wind the wind itself follows patterns of natural law the miracle is
that it happened just when and where it was needed so it's the timing that can be miraculous
but the real problem the scientists say with defining miracles as events unexplained by
natural law is that it springs from an understanding of nature as a machine which runs
itself it's the notion of an impersonal uncaring universe relentlessly following laws of
cause and effect that's a position recently expounded by Don Cupitt in his BBC TV series the
sea of faith this understanding say the scientists is in fact unscientific and the reason is
they say that natural laws do not cause or dictate events they're merely descriptions of
what we expect to happen on the basis of previous experience the research scientists say
that to claim that all events follow these patterns is a philosophical position and not a
scientific one they call that philosophical position naturalism and they say it is quite
contrary to the Christian view of the world the Christian view they argue is to see events
that can be covered by natural laws as God's usual activity we get so used to the usual
pattems that we forget how amazing they are but at times they say God does unusual things
too the usual and the unusual are both God's doing and it's miracles which confront us with
God most clearly Don Cupitt was presumably one of the people the conference members had in
mind when they emphasised their confidence in the miracles as stated in the Bible and
deplored the tendency of some to try to reduce thern to merely mechanical events by
suggesting scientific explanafions it's a useful reminder that some scientists find Don
Cupitt unscientific the debate goes on

[001 SPOKEN ENGLISH CORPUS TEXT A01]
[In Perspective]
[Rosemary Hartill]
[Broadcast notes: Radio 4, 07.45 a.m., 24th November, 1984]

Good morning. More news about the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, founder of the
Unification church, who's currently in jail for tax evasion: he was awarded an honorary degree
last week by the Roman Catholic University of la Plata in Buenos Aires, Argentina. in
announcing the award in New York, the rector of the university, Dr Nicholas Argentato,
described Mr Moon as a prophet of our time. Next week a delegation of nine Protestant
ministers from Argentina visits the Autumn assembly of the British Council of Churches; it's
meant as a symbol of reconciliation between Christians, following the Falklands War.
Protestants, however, are a tiny minority in Argentina, and the delegation won't be
including a Roman Catholic. The assembly will also be discussing the UK immigration laws,
Hong Kong, teenagers in the church, and of course, church unity schemes. In the Free
Churches there's sorne renewed grumbling about Anglican ambivalence to the British Council
of Churches: though the Anglicans still talk about doing as much as possible with other
churches, some Free Church people feel that, in practice, the Anglicans go it alone whenever
they can. An article in this week's Baptist Times asks: What Bishop wants to confer, when he
can have a carnera and a microphone all to himself? When the Church of England's general
synod can now get so much attention from the press, the role of the British Council of
Churches seems to fade into the background. Of course, what concerns church leaders isn't
necessarily what worries ordinary churchgoers, even less the general public: l can't recall
ever having had a single letter on the British Council of Churches and its problems. Going
by my postbag, most people are worried about the problem of pain, the existence of God, and
miracles. They want to know whether, for instance, in a scientific age, Christians can
really believe in the story of the feeding of the five thousand as described, or was the
miracle that those in the crowd with food shared it with those who had none? Is the aid
beginning to flow into Ethiopia any less a miracle than the five loaves and two fishes?
Well, just recently, a day conference on miracles was convened by the research scientists,
Christian Fellowship. It was chaired by Professor Sir Robin Boyd, a fellow of the Royal
Society, and the key question was: When is a miracle not a miracie? l suppose the popular
notion of a miracle is an event unexplained by science or natural laws; but the scientists
themselves weren't having any of that: on this definition, they say, very few events can
confidently be called miracles because we have no idea what natural laws may be discovered
in the future. More important, however, is that the biblical writers themselves thought that
events that followed natural laws could still be regarded as miraculous. Take the crossing
of the Red sea by the Israelites, for instance: this was made possible by a strong wind; the
wind itself follows patterns of natural law; the miracle is that it happened just when and
where it was needed; so its the timing that can be miraculous. But the real problem, the
scientists say, with defining miracles as events unexpiained by natural law is that it
springs from an understanding of nature as a machine which runs itself; it's the notion of
an impersonal, uncaring universe relentlessly following laws of cause and effect. That's a
position recently expounded by Don Cupitt in his BBC TV series, The Sea of Faith. This
understanding, say the scientists, is in fact, unscientific, and the reason is, they say,
that natural laws do not cause or dictate events: they're merely descriptions of what we
expect to happen on the basis of previous expedence. The research scientists say that to
claim that all events follow these patterns is a philosophical position and not a scientific
one. They call that philosophical position 'naturalism', and they say it is quite contrary
to the Christian view of the world; the Christian view, they argue, is to see events that
can be covered by natural laws as God's usual activity; we get so used to the usual patterns
that we forget how amazing they are, but at times, they say, God does unusual things too.
The usual and the unusual are both God's doing, and it's miracles which confront us with God
most clearly. Don Cupitt was presumably one of the people the conference members had in mind
when they emphasised their confidence in the miracles as stated in the Bible,and deplored
the tendency of sorne to try to reduce therm to merely mechanical events by suggesting
scientific explanations. It's a useful reminder that sorne scienfists find Don Cupitt
unscientific. The debate goes on.