RE: [Corpora-List] Incidence of MWEs

From: Amsler, Robert (Robert.Amsler@hq.doe.gov)
Date: Wed Mar 15 2006 - 19:13:25 MET

  • Next message: Copperman, Max: "RE: [Corpora-List] Author+'s plans for books"

    Err.. so you are saying that the dictionary only need give definitions
    for MWEs which violate the rules, "tool for Verbing Noun" or "tool for
    Verbing, shaped like a Noun"? (e.g., "pencil pusher" needs a definition,
    because it's meaning is only metaphorically related to "a tool for
    pushing pencils"?)

    Minimally, one would need another rule, "a person who Verbs Noun" which
    then allows "a person who pushes pencils" so that the metaphor is
    direct. This allows "wood carver" to be "a person who carves wood". But
    that's not enough, clearly "cork stopper" doesn't work, i.e., we now
    need "a stopper made out of cork" and need to distinguish that from "a
    carver made out of wood". I guess what I'm driving at here is that there
    is no telling how many rules there are and every time the rule set
    grows, the indeterminate nature of the MWEs grows, until it isn't
    predictable, hence the need for definitions.

    It does sound interesting to create a large inventory of MWEs with
    accompanying rules that predict what their minimal definitions would be;
    however, the minimal definitions aren't the definition that a dictionary
    should contain; a dictionary should give more information than the
    minimal definition, especially when such information is known to native
    speakers.

    On 3/15/06, will.fitzgerald@pobox.com wrote:
    The thing is, the various meanings of 'pencil sharpener', 'crayon
    sharpener' and 'stick sharpener' are all predictable just not from
    their immediate lexical items. I think that any 'tool for Verbing Noun'
    or a 'tool for Verbing, shaped like a Noun' will apply in Noun Verb-er
    expressions. Certainly, because there is a greater need for pencil
    sharpeners, pencil sharpeners tend to have standard shapes & components,
    but a pencil sharpener that worked via laser beams would still be a
    pencil sharpener. And imagine a tool for sharpening knives that had a
    graphite core; in the proper context, 'pencil sharpener' (or maybe even
    'pencil knife sharpener' is ok.

    The point is that general real-world knowledge, plus rules of phrasal
    combination, create predictable meanings for some expressions that are
    not predicatable based on the lexical meanings.

    Oh, by the way, here is a 'pencil pencil sharpener':
    <http://www.shop-eds.com/ProductDetail.aspx?prntdid=1810&did=1828&pid=23
    623>



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Mar 15 2006 - 19:13:26 MET